Obama's odd reason for opposing impeachment
Barack Obama on the incompetence and secrecy of the Bush administration, and on why impeaching them is unacceptable:
"There's a way to bring an end to those practices, you know: vote the bums out," the presidential candidate said, without naming Bush or Cheney. "That's how our system is designed."Well, no. Our system was actually designed so that we can remove criminal officials through impeachment.
-USA Today
He goes on:
"I think you reserve impeachment for grave, grave breeches, and intentional breeches of the president's authority," he said.Illegally spying on millions of Americans in violation of the Fourth Amendment, holding American citizens without providing access to counsel for years, torturing captives, evidence of felonious vote caging (aimed at denying Blacks their right to vote), etc., don't constitute "grave breeches"? Exactly what would constitute a "grave breech" in Obama's mind? And what does he mean "intentional breeches"? Does he think Bush spied on Americans by accident?
5 comments:
"Criminals", eh? I've heard it said many times that "A man is innocent until proven President."
Have you ever noticed that the only crime listed in the constitution is Treason? I've certainly never noticed anything indicating incompetence or malfeasance. Various "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" are never defined.
Adultry is a crime. Yet our last President was not removed from office although he had various affairs. Driving without wearing a seatbelt is a crime. I've seen nobody removed from office for such an offense.
Carter was not a very effective President. Yet he was not removed for incompetence.
JFK is believed to have had affairs while in office. Where was the impeachment?
Use of weapons of Mass Destruction is a war crime, and a crime against humanity. Yet, Harry S. Truman ordered the use of such devices. Where is the impeachment?
Let's see... J Edgar Hoover kept massive files on almost every American. Why was he not removed from HIS office?
President Hoover was incapable of calming Americans during stock market crash of 1929. There was panic. This is a sign of incompetence. Why was he not removed?
Bush is not the first President to order spying. I doubt he'll be the last.
Hmmm. Want congress to write up a bill defining impeachable crimes? You'll have a bill stretching from D.C. to L.A.
It is not a crime to protect our nation. The crime is FAILING to do so.
"Have you ever noticed that the only crime listed in the constitution is Treason? I've certainly never noticed anything indicating incompetence or malfeasance. Various "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" are never defined."
That's because the Constitution leaves it to Congress and the States to decide what is and isn't a crime. Spying on Americans without a warrant is a crime. Vote caging is a crime. We know the President has committed the first crime (since long before 9/11 , and it didn't protect our country then, by the way), and the second is under investigation.
"Adultry is a crime. Yet our last President was not removed from office although he had various affairs. Driving without wearing a seatbelt is a crime. I've seen nobody removed from office for such an offense."
Comparing driving without a seatbelt and philandering to illegal spying, imprisonment without due process and vote caging is just silly. Neither adultery nor driving without a seatbelt violates our Fourth, Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendment rights, for instance.
"Carter was not a very effective President. Yet he was not removed for incompetence. "
Did I say Bush should be impeached for incompetence?
"Use of weapons of Mass Destruction is a war crime, and a crime against humanity. Yet, Harry S. Truman ordered the use of such devices. Where is the impeachment?"
The notion of "crimes against humanity" didn't exist until after WW2. The use of WMD in a war wasn't a crime until long after WW2.
"Let's see... J Edgar Hoover kept massive files on almost every American. Why was he not removed from HIS office?"
He should have been. The Constitution doesn't save impeachment for the President. Any Federal officer can be impeached.
Another person who should've been impeached: Franklin Roosevelt, for the illegal imprisonment of all Japanese Americans in violation of their Fourteenth Amendment rights.
"Bush is not the first President to order spying. I doubt he'll be the last."
ILLEGAL spying, specifically outlawed by the FISA Act of 1978. Ken Lay wasn't the first CEO to swindle his stockholders, and won't be the last, yet he was still prosecuted. I guess we should've let him off the hook?
"Hmmm. Want congress to write up a bill defining impeachable crimes? You'll have a bill stretching from D.C. to L.A.
"It is not a crime to protect our nation. The crime is FAILING to do so."
It IS a crime to commit crimes. Saying it's "protecting our nation" is a lame excuse, considering they began doing it before 9/11, it didn't stop 9/11, and they haven't turned up so much as a single traitor through this illegal eavesdropping.
Impeachment is mentioned several times in the Constitution. The Founders obvoiusly designed the system so we wouldn't have to wait for elections to deal with officials who break important laws. The fact that previous Congresses have been too timid to use the tool they were given when it was warranted doesn't change the fact that they were given the tool. Obama's reasoning in this regard is obviously incorrect.
""Criminals", eh? I've heard it said many times that "A man is innocent until proven President.""
I think it's been pretty well established by now that the current occupant of the White House is a law-breaker. We have to impeach (even if there's no chance of conviction) if only to send a message to America and the world that our system has accountability, and a warning to future Presidents that they can't break laws with impunity.
I am with you, Darren. At the same time, I think that Washington politicians just don't think that it is worth the effort of impeaching Bush since he is going to be gone in a year and a half.
I would like to see criminal investigations against him at some point, but it is not going to happen either.
Darren, you give me hope that there are still people with passion, intelligence, and stamina - you need it to outlast the morons. If this entire administration isn't an example of high crimes nothing is - everything they do & say is manipulative, a lie, and done for the pure motive of profit. I've never seen such a repulsive example of wrapping oneself in the flag for the purpose of camoflage. Those who don't see this are, well, rubes - or are profiting from it themselves somehow. The fascist mindset of his mindless supporters stuns me. And no one could do anything to J. Edgar because he had files on everyone. And FDR imprisoned Japanese-Americans when the proven threat was from German-Americans, many of whom were caught spying. Why no camps for them? Racism. I love you and Candorville, Darren - keep speaking the truth!
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